Mental Capacity Act: Making decisions about money *MV

In this film we meet Roger, a man with learning
disabilities living in supportive housing. Roger has recently moved with the help
of Tracey, a social worker and does not have an appointee to look
after his benefits. Tracey is concerned that the staff at
Roger’s home may be crossing a line between supporting Roger to decide how he spends his
money and making some financial decisions for him. Tracey is meeting Roger to access his
capacity to make decisions about his money. One outcome could be to apply for an appointee. At the same time, Tracey is trying to find out if Roger
would like more help to make his own financial decisions. Roger and Tracey role-play this situation. Extracts are shown of what would be a longer process. – The reason I’ve come to talk with you today.
– Yeah. – Is to have a chat about…
– Yeah. – what you understand about your money.
– Yeah. – The money that you have coming into you
and the money that is spent – and to have a discussion about how, how you
do that and how people help you with that. – Yeah.
– Ok? Yeah.
– And to see if thats, if there’s any ways we can – improve how that works.
– Yeah. – Ok. So I won’t be writing very much but sometimes –
– No – I might need to do that so that I don’t forget things.
– Yeah. Ok. First of all can you just tell me
a little bit about, who in the house helps you with your – with things around money. My support workers, they help me with my money.
– Uhuh. Can you think of some of the things
that they help you with? – They help me sometimes with my budgeting.
– Ok. Yeah, and they – What does that mean, how do they help you with that? Sometimes I have to go to the building society.
– Uhuh. If I want something, if its not much. – And the support workers come with you then?
– Yeah they – – They go with me. Yeah.
– Ok And when you get there, what do you have to do? Do
you have to pay for anything when you get to the bank. – I have a bank book, I give it over the counter.
– Uhuh. – So you take your bank book. Is that for –
is that to? – To get the money out.
– To take money out. Ok so the support worker comes with you
to the building society and you take your bank book and take some money out.
Who decides how much money to take out? Before we – before we set out on our journey, I’ll ask before how much, how much money
to get out, and then… So can you tell me the kind of things that you
need to use that money for? What do you spend it on? – Some of the money I have to use for food contrib…
– Food contribution? Yeah. I have to pay rent. =And I get money for if I go anywhere important…
– OK… – and the different places.
– Uhuh, uhuh. – You do quite a lot of different activities don’t you.
– I do yeah. So do you need a little bit of money
for each of those activities? – Staff in my house, they like me to have some money on me.
– Uhuh. – OK
– Yeah for different things. Yeah. Ok. I know that you’ve got lots, you’re
very interested in going out on your own – – Yeah.
– and you do that quite often. – Yeah.
– Yeah? Yeah. Ok. So I want to ask you about how much money
you take if you went out on your own. For example, if you went out to go and have some lunch. Is that, yeah, that’s something you do isn’t it?
– Yes. So if you were going out to have some lunch, on
your own, without a support worker. Yes.
– Do you know how much money you might take with you? – Sometimes, I take a five pound note out.
– OK. If I don’t have five pound in my tin,
they’ll let me have ten pound for lunch. Ok, ok. So what would be one of your favourite lunches? What do you like to have when you go to your cafe? I like to, I know it’s not very –
– [laugh] – I do like fish and chips.
– Do you, ok. – Yeah.
– Do you have a drink when you have your fish and chips? – Yeah, yeah with my meal I do like a hot drink.
– Ok, a tea or a… I like a tea or –
– Uhuh. if they don’t sell tea I could have a cup of coffee. – Ok, so you like to have a hot drink with your meal.
– Yeah yeah, yeah. Ok. So do you know – if you had fish and chips
and a tea, could you guess how much that might cost? – Some of the cafes are dear.
– Some are dear and some are not so dear. – Yeah.
– So would it be, what would a dear one be I wonder. Would – if you had to pay five pounds…
– Yeah. …for your fish and chips and tea. Would that
be dear or not dear? – No, I don’t mind
– You don’t mind that, five pounds – No.
– That seems quite reasonable, doesn’t it? – Yeah.
– for fish and chips and a tea… – Yeah.
– Uhuh. – Have you got, you know you told me earlier
about each day you have your money, your support worker helps you to put it in your money bag. Yeah, I’ll get it out. – Have you got, yeah you’ve got that with you.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you mind getting that out and
showing me what you’ve got there. I’ll put this down.
– Excellent, right – so let’s have a look.
Can you open it up? – I can open it.
– Right, so what’s that note there you’ve got? – A five pound note.
– You’ve got a five. Ok, five and what else have you got there. Can you count it out for me? Are you able to.
– Thats five pound, six. – Six.
– Seven. – Seven.
– Seven fifty. – Seven fifty, excellent.
– Yeah. – Ok, so that would be enough then –
– For, for… – So if you spent a five on, if you spent a fiver on… – I do yeah.
– Your fish and chips and your tea. What have you got left there?
– Two pound fifty. Two fifty. So say, right so say you’ve been out
for your lunch and then you’re on your way home and you fancied something from the shop. Do you ever
pick up anything from the shop on the way home? – I buy a Mars sometime.
– A Mars? – A Mars bar.
– Yep. How much is a Mars bar these days? – Oh it’s 50 pence, 50 or 60.
– Is it. Would you like to have the chance
to take more out with you, incase you might see something that you fancied, like
a I don’t know, something a bit bigger? – Yeah.
– Do you ever go clothes shopping? Clothes shopping, yeah I go with them this time. You do ok. Thats something you do with them. Alright
then, well maybe that is something we can talk to the support staff about as well.
– Yes, yeah. Cause you do seem to be, you know I’m sure you’re
quite careful with your money when you go out. – I am, yes.
– And you seem to know how much you need to spend and how much you’ve got in your bag there. Ok, well that’s been really helpful talking about
that Roger. Do you ever get to see the information about what’s going on in your bank account
or the building society account? What’s called your statement, do you ever see those? – I get shown, I get shown where that is. Yeah.
– Ok, so you look at that? I look at that. Ok, so it sounds like, the support workers at your home…. – Yeah, there. Yeah.
– …they’re quite helpful to you. – Yeah. And they’re quite involved in helping you to make
decisions about getting your money from the building society and helping you to decide what you need to do.
– Yeah. How much you’re going to need each day when you go out.
– Yeah. Yeah. Is there some ways that you could,
the support workers could help you to, you know, to make even more decisions
about how to use your money. Yeah, yeah. I wonder how, what might be helpful to you?
Do you feel that you can, if for example if you wanted to spend something, go and buy,
I don’t know. You like listening to music don’t you. – Do you ever go and buy music?
– I do some. So if you wanted to go and buy some music or
even if you wanted to buy something bigger, like something to listen to your music on.
– Yeah. How would, would you feel able to
make a decision on that? I would have to talk it through first. Ok, so it sounds like the support
workers help you quite a lot. – Yeah.
– Yes, ok. Ok and is that something that you’re happy with?
– Yeah. – Yeah?
– Yeah. Otherwise I wouldn’t know where the money was going to. Ok, ok. Is there anything that you would
like to learn to do, with your money or anything that you would like to learn about
managing your money, that you don’t do now? I’d like to know sometimes where,
where the money is going to. These are the things that, the ways in which your
money is being spent that you don’t usually see. – No.
– Ok, so maybe this, would this be things like – how much is going on the rent and..
– Yeah – bills and things like that.
– Yeah. Ok, so maybe there is a way that we could talk
with the support workers about involving you more in seeing what money is coming out of your
account and what it’s being spent on. – Yeah.
– Ok, well that sounds like a really good idea. – Yeah.
– So that then, cause it is your money isn’t it. – Yes.
– Yes. Alright then Roger, well it’s been really really helpful having this chat with you this morning
about your money and how you manage it. – Yeah.
– That’s really good and there’s some things that we can talk to your support workers about.
– Yeah. Is there anything else that you wanted to say to me? I do like having me, I like having money on m… Yeah. – You like having money on you.
– Yeah. – Ok.
– Yeah. If I didn’t have that money, I’d be a bit lost. Yes. Oh good, well that is important. That’s important for you to have your own money,
be able to go out when you choose and spend – – Yeah yeah yeah.
– Spend it on the things that you want to spend it on …and that’s yeah good. That’s really important.
– Yeah. All right Roger, if there’s nothing else that
you want to say or tell me then I think we’ve spoken enough about that today.
– Yeah. – All right thank you very much.
– Yeah.


  1. lloyd richards said:

    roger i love fish and chips too

    February 24, 2018
  2. Sa archer said:

    She keeps saying "hmmmhm" ah huh" before he gets chance to finish

    March 18, 2018
  3. Trace Smith said:

    How this never won a BAFTA I will never know!

    February 28, 2019

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